by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:54 pm, Post In the event we receive any compensation and/or other valuable consideration for any other content presented on this website, the nature of that compensation or consideration will be disclosed as part of the applicable content and/or otherwise adjacent to it. Tuning. So far the bogging down hasn't happened since last week. With a plate clutch, that effect is often quite pronounced, especially in a reduction gear, because of the mechanical connection between the engine flywheel and the transmission input shaft; neither can overrun the other. Your torque converter is full of fluid, and its jobis to act as a hydraulic pump and acts as a coupling between the engine and the transmission. It stays between 0 and 5 RPM when locked. The PYPF cookie normally expires in approximately four weeks, the 01A1 cookie in approximately one year. Unlike a clutch where a friction plate makes physical contact with another plate and ideally the two rotate at exactly the same speed when fully engaged. One way to minimize coupling slip is to supplement the fluid clutch with a plate clutch that engages when the vehicle reaches cruising speed. scheme, but it does contribute. The wp-donottrack_feed cookie, which controls a blog feed, was set by accessing the dashboard menu for the WP DoNotTrack plugin (which we do not currently use on this website); this cookie normally expires in about one year. I don't think they had this in 2011 however. With no slip at all. Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:39 am, Post Most street torque. If oil pressure to the cylinder was relieved, the pressure plate would no longer be held against the clutch plate, disengaging the clutch and allowing the torque converter to function normally. Generally, by the time you reach the 60-foot mark on the dragstrip, torque multiplication is effectively eliminated and the turbine and impeller speeds are close to achieving what converter manufacturers call coupling speed. For one, the engine would stall every time the vehicle came to a halt with the lockup clutch engaged unless the driver shifted to neutral each time. Therefore, a lockup clutch needs to be accompanied by some mechanism to selectively engage or disengage the clutch. To learn more about how Google may use information collected by the Google Analytics service, see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page, the "Information for Visitors of Sites and Apps Using Google Analytics" section of the Google Analytics "Safeguarding your data" help page, and the Google Privacy Policy. That could be within the margin of error for the sensor. I was running the KEM 250 and 310 tunes. AE parameters when looking for tranny slip? All engine power flows through the mechanical clutch directly to the input shaft. AAMCO Centers are independently owned and operated. Since the transmission was largely dependent on the torque converter for torque multiplication, it was crucial that the lockup clutch not engage prematurely and that there be some means to immediately disengage it for acceleration. These cookies expire in about 15 days if the user clicks "Remember Me" when logging in; if not, the cookies normally expire when the user closes their browser (or other user agent), or, failing that, within about two days. ), These cookies were previously used by the Google Analytics service to collect information about visitors and their use of the Ate Up With Motor website. New to the site and found it because of this read. The turbine drives the front annulus through the input shaft (medium blue). JavaScript is disabled. With the advent of overdrive automatic transmissions like the TH200-4R, the TH700-R4/4L60E, the massive 4L80E, the Ford AOD, and all the rest, the new-car companies were striving for improved fuel economy using overdrive. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I had "guessed" that it could have been a valve body issue when trying to diagnose on my own and I replaced that to no avail. This has been a quick jaunt through world of torque converters, but it should at least inspire some intelligent questions to ask your converter company of choice as to the best converter for your application. You can hide the "Support Ate Up With Motor" box and prevent the loading of its embedded content by going to the "Consent Management" tab and switching the "Allow PayPal Button" toggle to "OFF." Third, make sure that your engine is running right because a transmission chuggle can be caused by many things. Theshuddering makes the car lagand is very noticeable. .. makes you appreciate the thought and consideration that goes into EFILive if only we could clone the boys (and girls) of EFILive, imagine a Delphi Ross and Bosch Ross, By WS600 in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol), By Bradazz in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), By joecar in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), 6 speed/8 speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T43, T76, T87), http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.012-T43-Tables, If this is your first visit, be sure to Wallace Racing BACK to Auto Math. & Tm. * Various services, specials, or coupon offers are available at participating locations only. 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Ate Up With Motor's Terms of Use and Privacy Policy may be revised from time to time. With automated hydraulic operation and combinations of brakes and clutches, it was possible to get the same results more efficiently. Starting in Drive provided a maximum starting ratio of 3.10:1 (a mechanical ratio of 1.44:1 times a nominal torque converter stall ratio of 2.16:1 at around 1,600 rpm), which was better than the early Ultramatic or Dynaflow, but still made for lazy performance, especially with Studebakers six-cylinder engine. Torque converter slip question I was monitoring some Torque converter params for my 4R55E with my in dash scantool. A flyweight 2,800-pound car like an early Mustang or Chevy II could use less multiplication to successfully launch on their relatively smaller rear tires. Contact Us - I purchased my car 3 weeks ago from a new car dealership.. Cookies whose names begin with "_ceg" are associated with the Crazy Egg web analytics service (which is subject to the Crazy Egg Privacy Policy and Cookie Policy). Once your torque converter starts failing, you need to be knowledgeable about what torque converter problems will disable your car? Hence, you've commanded your torque converter every time your car shifted gears. (At this point, an updated, expanded edition wouldnt go amiss, given all the subsequent development in CVTs and automatics with five or more speeds.). (author diagram). if you dont hammer on it everyday it will last you a long time.. my stock converter had 350 rpms of slip on In this schematic of a basic three-element torque converter with lockup clutch, the torus cover, lockup clutch pressure plate, and impeller (red) all rotate with the engine flywheel. Obviously some sort of mechanism would have been required to determine what gear to select and when to actually shift, but starting with a Wilson box at least some of the problems would have been solved. I never saw a problem with the converter, it never went over 3 to 4 RPM slippage at WOT with it locked. Stall speed is measured in the car by applying the brakes and revving the engine in First gear against the brakes. Doesn't seem to coincide with vehicle shifting though. sir im having an issue with my 93 f150 aod. 2. Each PayPal payment or donation button may also incorporate a tracking pixel called "pixel.gif" (which loads from paypalobjects.com). We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. Filling the cylinder with pressurized oil would lock the pressure plate to the clutch plate itself, forcing the clutch and input shaft to rotate with the torus cover at engine speed. If your car transmission keeps overheating, you may also notice your transmission starts to act funny, or it may even go into fail date and stay in one gear and not shift at all. Click to reveal By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. but my truck has 25k on it and 10k tuned.. so im thinking mines not on the way out and its got 20rpm slip. (These cookies are not usually set for administrative users, since comments they submit while logged in are associated with their user ID number and user profile information rather than a manually entered name and email address.). These a11y cookies normally expire after about seven days, but are removed immediately if you restore the applicable settings to their default values. Another fascinating article, thank you for all your effort! Once engaged, the lockup clutch simply drove the output shaft at engine speed (not turbine speed). This is a very slick trick and can be worth up to 2.5 times engine torque! (For each of these cookies, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash.) ), These third-party cookies may be set in connection with embedded video players for content hosted on the Vimeo video platform, for purposes such as (without limitation) managing video settings, storing video preferences, providing certain functionality (e.g., allowing you to pause a video at a particular point), associating your video viewing and other activity with your Vimeo account (if you have one), showing you advertising, ensuring proper functioning of the service, preventing abuse, and/or compiling user analytics data. (WordPress and the WordPress logos are registered trademarks of the WordPress Foundation in the United States and other countries. Unlike a reduction gear, this speed reduction doesnt multiply engine torque. As long as this mechanical lockup remains fully engaged, there is no slip, which improves fuel economy (typically by around 4% at cruising speeds) and provides throttle response and engine braking comparable to a vehicle with a manual gearbox. If the engine isnt free to turn faster than the driveshaft at rest or extremely low speeds, the engine will stall! mroberthowell 4 yr. ago Thank you so much! Heat is the enemy of any automatic transmission and will radically reduce its life span if not mediated by an efficient trans cooler. If you shop at Amazon.com (for anything), use this link to support FordFlex.net! Come join the discussion about diesel performance, modifications, EGR deletes, troubleshooting, lift kits, tires, wheels, maintenance, and more! In this installment of Ate Up With Motor, we take a look at how GM, Ford, Chrysler, Packard, and Studebaker have approached this slippery problem from 1949 through the late eighties. But the most common torque converter problems are listed below. It's when you have a damaged torque converter seal that fluid leaks out and causes the overheating and damage. You can't be sure the slipping or shuddering has anything to do with your torque converter until you check your fluid levels. Your first course of action, if you notice yourtransmission or torque converter has started to slip or shudder is checking your fluid level. At stall speed, the impeller is spinning at engine rpm and the turbine is stopped. That's because torque converters transfer the power your car engine makes to the transmission in your car. I did the trans relearn today with the Spartan 275 tune. When the torque converter starts malfunctioning, you may feel shuddering and even slipping in overdrive. Unsurprisingly, each engagement or disengagement of the lockup clutch felt like a shift, giving less technically knowledgeable drivers the mistaken impression that Ultramatic was a two-speed automatic. Ultramatics lockup clutch was a hydraulically operated wet clutch located within the torque converter housing, between the engine flywheel and the converter turbine. Submitting a comment signifies your acceptance of our Comment Policy please read it first! Im not able to provide repair or maintenance advice, sorry! When the two problems are combined, it could mean your torque converter is failing. Archive - Reach out to your local AAMCO transmission center when youre ready for your efficient, smooth and worry-free ride. Do you want them slipping when driving? Tire slip is likely causing your speed difference. Part 3 of 3 High Performance Academy Sonnax and SIU - Mega Torque. Most Torque Converters today also use a friction clutch to lock up the converter at higher speeds to create more fuel efficiency and less slip. Cloudflare Ray ID: 7c0ed4b42f522a79 At idle and very low road speeds, slippage is desirable because it keeps the engine from stalling or lugging in gear. The multiplication factor is based on the speed difference between the turbine and impeller. However, Wilson gearboxes were quite bulky and complex because the nature of their operation required a separate set of epicyclic gears for each ratio, including reverse. (These cookies may not be set at all for administrative users unless they access the publicly visible portions of the website and/or update their consent settings e.g., by accepting an updated version of the Privacy Policy. For additional information about how Google uses cookies and/or other technologies that may collect and/or process personal information, see the "Technologies" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site and the "Our advertising and measurement cookies" section of their Google Business Data Responsibility site, which includes a detailed list of cookies associated with Google advertising and measurement products. You only monitor it when the converter is locked. (Until late 1954, the transmissions planetary gearset always remain in direct drive unless the driver manually selected Low.) Okay, so it sounds like you were able to identify a potential root cause. The slipping occurs while you're driving or changing gears, and it usually comes with some odd noises too. PLEASE DON'T SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED CONTENT YOU AREN'T AUTHORIZED TO USE! I havent studied the Wilson preselectors in any great detail, but if youre curious, the applicable U.S. patents are US1404675 and US1796904. With Torque Pro torque slip shows it at 0-6 rpm at 60 mph and when coming to a stop it jumps to 25-40 rpm then raises to 1400+. It will also integrate that knowledge with what type of car and transmission consumers are buying. You must be at least 18 to comment. All site content Copyright 2007-var year=new Date(); year=year.getYear(); if (year<1900) year+=1900; document.write(year); FordFlex.net FordFlex.net is in no way affiliated with Ford Motor Company. T43 Torque Converter Desired Slip. But this shuttering is not caused by a disease. Primary symptom includes a "rumble strip" like sound randomly while driving at speeds of about 40+. In second, the low band was released and the multi-disc clutch engaged, causing both ring gears to rotate at turbine speed. I was towing my 5th wheel and the temp went up to 285. the only readings i got was for all the electronically controlled aod. Advertising - The wire chaffing is a definite possibility. Input output shaft readings are almost exactly the same when driving. One of the fundamental differences between a fluid clutch (a fluid coupling or torque converter) and a mechanical plate clutch is slippage. Shifting to third gear was accomplished by engaging the torque converter lockup clutch. A spring-loaded plunger valve controlled oil flow to the lockup clutchs hydraulic cylinder. In first, the low band and one-way clutches held both sun gears, causing the ring gears to drive the planet carrier and output shaft at 43.3% of turbine speed (1 / 2.31). The space ahead of the clutch formed a hydraulic cylinder containing an annular steel piston that acted as a pressure plate. Required fields are marked *. If governor pressure dropped below that threshold, the clutch would disengage. (author diagram). Comments may be moderated. We arent saying 10RPM of slip is bad, what we are saying is that seems to be the progression point of going out. There are several ways to arrange such a clutch, but the common object is to create a mechanical connection between the engine and the transmission input shaft (which otherwise is driven by the fluid clutchs turbine(s)). Lockup clutches were used in some nonautomotive torque converters before World War II, but the first regular-production automotive application was the 1949 Packard Ultramatic Drive, which established a model for subsequent transmission designs. Change Background Color (Note: This option sets cookies on your device to manage your color settings; see the Cookie Notice for details.). The reason for increasing stall speed is directly related to the engine's torque curve. 3. and 5. Torque converter clutch slip Scan tool values 99 GMC Pickup GM's 6L80 HP Tuning, DoD, and Torque Converters! Your IP: Manage Preferences - 4. During a shudder the desired will stay close to 0rpm but the act pid will go up and down in rpm. However, the cookie may remain on your device for as long as the settings of your browser (or other user agent) permit. A healthy plate clutch slips only briefly when engaged or disengaged. Akamai is a registered trademark or service mark of Akamai Technologies, Inc. in the United States (Reg. Submitting a comment signifies your acceptance of our. The impeller pump receives the transmission fluid once it's delivered. Some electrical tape and some plastic wire loom may solve your issue entirely. There are tried and true methods for fixing the five common torque converter issues. If the engine is not running smoothly and/or delivering consistent power, it can cause fluctuation in the "Desired" versus "Actual" torque converter clutch slippage along with a surging feeling. Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics 7.3L Power Stroke - Aftermarket & Performance. Petrol / Gas. The torque converter is made up of five parts: The stator is called the middleman. If the fluid becomes contaminated, anything that uses and relies on the fluid can be damaged. Accessing certain posts or pages on this website may require you to enter a specific password. A malfunctioning torque converter can have a shudder that comes from the transmission. Impeller Pump The impeller pump receives the transmission fluid once it's delivered. There may be more than one of these cookies, particularly if you access several password-protected posts with different passwords. This overran the rear unit planet carrier, unlocking the rear sun gears one-way clutch and putting the transmission in direct drive. (Those pages do not currently discuss the storage of data in your browser (or other user agent) using technologies other than cookies, e.g., in web storage.) The stock converter wouldn't with a big tune unless I was cruising at light throttle. This is not a huge factor in the overall lower-e.t. Many times, people think there is something wrong with their transmission when the problem lies with their torque converter. The vehicle suffered a torque converter failure at around 140k miles. I drove only sticks for years by choice. If the solenoid is not regulating the fluid flow properly, it could cause variability in the torque converter clutch performance as well. Many of the other listed cookies are associated with the Google Analytics service, the Google AdSense advertising service, and/or other Google advertising and measurement products, which are subject to the Google Privacy Policy; see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page, the "Information for Visitors of Sites and Apps Using Google Analytics" section of the Google Analytics "Safeguarding your data" help page, the "Technologies" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site, and the "Our advertising and measurement cookies" section of the Google Business Data Responsibility site (which includes a detailed list of cookies associated with Google advertising and measurement products) for more information. Last fall, the external filter disintegrated and clogged up the cooler. The issues of slippage and heat are the main reasons that street converters should be approached with a serious amount of compromise when it comes to stall speed. Because of the lack of traction and limited tires, it's not critical that a street engine launch at peak-torque rpm. That should make you and your car happy. Have you ever gotten in your car, started it up, put it in gear only to feel it shudder? I agree that a manual transmission option would be great. U.S. Pat. Click to reveal Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool. These cookies are necessary for the site's administrative users (who wouldn't even be able to log in without them), but if you are not an administrative user, these cookies aren't normally placed on your device at all unless you somehow access the login area, which is off-limits to non-administrators. i take it your a writer and not a trans guy ,but maybe someone could answer the question. Studebaker-Packard (the two companies merged in 1954) dropped both of these transmissions after the 1956 model year. Forum. In drive at 0 speed TCD should read 1020 rpm and TCA should be Engine RPM - Sure, there's all kind of talk about stall speed, slippage, and lockup features, but some gearheads secretly believe there's as much voodoo to a torque converter as there is science. If your going over ten your gonna need a new torque converter fairly soon..depends how you drive.. my converter started off slipping at about 13 on the 275 and ended up wearing out pretty quick and it began slipping like 45-50 on the gauge.
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