LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations. I truly appreciate your time and great efforts in doctrinal essays and your wonderful books. That being said I am personally bound by the admonition given in countless times and ways throughout scripture and most clearly in the Doctrine and Covenants 63: 64. While I may not be able to answer these and other questions, Mormons Believe that Christ, Heavenly Father, and the Holy Ghost are Separate Beings. Email from me is very sparse. Given George Laub's explicit summary of the King Follett sermon and the short time between JS' death and these ordinations performed in the Nauvoo period, it seems very likely that the doctrine underlying the ordinations originated with JS. He, Only He. You must understand that this is a very poor argument. That is they aren't to be taken mystically or platonically but in a materialist/historicist kind of 'literalism.' Mahalo for your light, your love for truth, and your love for us all! May God bless you too. Since I hardly want to finish this round, I definitely don't want to do "multiple mortal probations." Eric, thank you so much for this wonderful essay. By . I have learned for Hearing experiences like yours along with Erics and Julies really helps me. I was once looking at the wickedness of the world and lamenting the fact that so few in this generation appear to be on a path to come to know Christ and therefore lacking what is needed to enter into His kingdom (JST Matt 7:33). I have not ever been constrained by The Spirit to speak in ways that invite others to look to me for the answers that must only come from Father. It has been reported by those who knew the first prophet of the church that he was at least at one. I am viewed as someone who dares to imply that I have had experiences and spiritual gifts other than just being led by the spirit through thoughts and ideas. When I hear the term applied to people other than Jesus I immediately think of Mosiah 15 and not MMP. Alaris Multiple Probations: A Lost Doctrine Remembered Paperback - January 15, 2020 by Eric J Smith (Author), Gregory P Christiansen (Author), Julie Rowe (Editor) 35 ratings See all formats and editions Paperback $10.12 Other used and collectible from $10.12 Orson Pratt apparently wasn't in on it or hadn't understood it as others had. Receive ye, therefore, my law" (D&C 132:24, see vs. 22-25). Erika, these are great questions. church. I can choose to end my learning and education then or I have the agency to continue onto college and graduate school. Well done, Eric. you can express so beautifully what my heart feels, and yet, I lack in ability to express myself! Again, I hope my sincere curiosity is coming through. News. I thank you! Multiple Mortal Probations (MMP) . The pattern and symbolism is unmistakable! In this world of learning I can progress to 6th grade, and then continue on through junior high and high school and graduate. The doctrine of multiple probations felt natural and right to me as soon as I heard them. For some of us, the doctrine came along at a time we had Adam-God can then be seen as based on JS' teachings and the endowment, with a simple fundamental misunderstanding on the identity of Micheal in the Godhead. Prescendia Huntington Buell (later Kimball) also affirmed her belief in "plural probations," referring to a statement "in confirmation" by her polyandrous husband Joseph Smiths. visionary, who can discern spirits, or who possess extraordinary compassion, Thank you for sharing your witness Cheryl! Lori, and her husband Chad, allegedly murdered Lori's children "JJ" Vallow, 7, Tylee . I know you and Julie Row are Great tools in the Lords hand in this last days. May I share my own experience that has allowed me to know and discern truth of such doctrine as MMP. This doctrine tastes delicious to me, and I glory in my God for His omniscience and almighty power to bring about our salvation and exultation in wonder and mysterious ways. However, Laub didn't only understand that the Holy Ghost would serve as a Christ (more on that later), but he also implied that JS' King Follet Sermon taught that all who achieved Godhood would pass through the same. If mortal probations, then individuals get better opportunity. I feel a longing and hope that I can learn and progress for as long as I choose to without time limits. Thank you for this essay, you have a way of expressing your thoughts and knowledge so eloquently and with so much clarity. Following is the summary of the January 1846 Nauvoo Temple Record from the Multiple Mortal Probations document: Brigham Young laid hands on Heber C. Kimball and "Ordained him to the Godhead, and that he would act as the Savior to a world or worlds." 1 Answer Sorted by: 4 Probation is an action taken by a church leader or council that limits some privileges of church membership. How did we live in the pre mortal realms and agree to a plan to come here where we only had one shot to get it right? What problem do you think the innovation was trying to solve? This concept was taught by early LDS Church leaders. Section 76 of the Doctrine and Covenants felt like fringe doctrine to some early members of the church when it was first received. The seriousness, the risk, and the glories of mortal life are undercut the moment one supposes he will have a million or more subsequent probations of the same sort. Some awesome people have been excommunicated. Elena, thank you for sharing your experience. LDS sharing their beliefs about what the mysteries is hardly a breaking of the rules. Libraries. I love truth wherever it is found. multiple lives, which to me is practical and actually very simplistic in consider to be a blessed gift from God. Where is the fairness in that? Thank you for bringing it out of obscurity. Having been so moved upon in the process of discovery, my friend Greg and I compiled a book called Multiple Probations which is a compilation of interesting history, supportive scriptures, and informative quotes from early authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Strang, a convert of only four months at the time of Smith's martyrdom, produced a letter he claimed was sent by the prophet naming . Thanks for your courage to share. One must review and agree to the rules of the group, established due to a few that join just to create contention and kick against the pricks. When I first came upon Julies podcasts and heard the messages, including MMP. Hopefully they will trust in me enough to do so. Tonya, I didnt know this about your family. Thanks for responding! As I am learning and beginning to understand more of multiple probations, eternal progression, ascension and condescension, I am seeing a much larger picture in the eternal realm of learning and progression. I highly recommend Multiple Probations: A Lost Doctrine Remembered by Eric Smith and Greg Christiansen, edited by Julie Rowe. Not sure if that group is still active anymore. One of the most effective teaching tools for me comes Thank you for the clarity youre bringing to this doctrine. But, I know this is absolutely trueAnd thank the Stalwart!! He trys to plant these seeds of doubt in my heart mind and spirit..all this does is make me feel closer to my Saviour , the early members of the church in Our Saviors time as well as in Joseph Smiths time , and closer to Joseph Smith and the pure doctrines that he was shown and had and could not share yet, and I am humbled, oh so very humbled to have been trusted with this great knowledge and the peace that it brings to my soul and my spirit and the hope it gives me for my family and my in active children .. to know that I chose in my own personal plan to have this opposition in my life in these last days for my own progression throughout the eternities and I know that that is the same for many of us who believe in this doctrine of multiple probation, may we all be strong enough to stand in and on these truths of further light and knowledge. Hyrum Leslie Andrus was a scholar, teacher, lecturer, and author. I must continually ask myself the question, Who am I to believe that Gods work is dependent on my understanding, teaching and attempting to enlighten the unenlightened? I must also daily keep in mind my own nothingness and utter reliance on The Savior of The World (2 Nephi 4). I love how this is turning into a string of testimonials. Thank you for raising this important point Diane. Thanks for sharing. You are obviously gifted and inspired by God. I can only answer that through study, prayer, fasting, and a fair amount of grief, I have paid the price to know. I always thought it unfair that I would be judged on the privileged (but hard) Life I have lived, while another may have been born into a leper colony in India. : And one lifetime is more than enough, if that lifetime lasts for eternity! May the Lord bless you! At one point I had to stop believing any thing he said to me of a spiritual nature and this set me on my path to get my own inspiration of the true doctrine. Because we are told this is the time for men to prepare to meet God, Yea behold , I find I am perplexed it seems we are being told in more than this scripture, that THIS TIME is the time from which we attain our eternal status, NOT THROUGH OUR OWN TOTAL EFFORTS, but from our leaning on the atonement of Christ. There were many things we did together as a couple and also individually that were in error of the doctrines of God as I have come to understand today. Each new day begins with the Sun (Son), providing a fresh beginning from the previous days follies and experiences, and yet, we continue to build upon those previous experiences. Ive been following your comments, beliefs and perspectives for some time now. To be associated with James Allen is an honor for me. This group gives us a safe platform in which we discuss the trials, tribulations, prophecies and signs of the last dispensation of which we live in. Hi. We say that one has to go to the grave to be born again in Christ. Elena, I hope you feel the sincerity of my heart when I say, I hear you! Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. One of the questions that has bothered me since I was very young is: How did it all start? Carston, your witness Of these things strengthens my own. 41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness; 42 That through him ALL MIGHT BE SAVED whom the Father had put into his power and made by him; 43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves ALL THE WORKS OF HIS HANDS, EXCEPT THOSE SONS OF PERDITION who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him. 2:307 or TPJS, pp. In the 1840s their polygamous relationship to the Mormon prophet was as secret as his conversion to reincarnation. Oh, and another thing, so many on this board have mentioned how attaining Godhood is much better than living as angels and playing harpsin the clouds doing nothing. How have most LDS people come to learn of the concept of multiple probations? Mormonism today is pretty bland by comparison. alteration of what seems to be the once purer doctrine taught long ago. My heart is full . doctrine has been turned into something very different than what has been made For me, if I get caught in thinking that something I say or do will be that which saves or enlightens you, I am in dangerous territory. They witness to the same insights I have also had on the matter. Callings Sharing the Gospel Volunteer and Serve Temples Family History. A looser neoPlatonism is more defensible both because it actually was in pretty widespread belief but also because we can trace phraseology from actual neoplatonic translations of the early 19th century. That is there is a certain form that Elijah participates in as part of being a person. thousands) of people I have personally heard from in emails, within the LDS Once this one is done, I will be satisfied with whatever modest reward it qualifies me for. Many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in my belief are afraid of these lost doctrines especially when they are exposed to it from news agencies that are trying to (in my opinion) to make people fear that if it doesnt come directly from the president or prophet of the church then we are being led away by false prophets. I believe that I am a child of a God, a child of a loving Heavenly Father and Mother with a divine heritage. I believe this to be truth. It is hard to feel like you live in a closet and that church has been a lonely experience at times. Here is the relevant portion: they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. we would not have experience and could not really gain knowledge or wisdom. And what is our test score? Can someone please give me some context for how this idea is considered doctrine? I hold the knowledge sacred, personal to my own covenant Required fields are marked *. The only doctrine that Julie specifically mentions her stake president having a problem with is "multiple probations," also called multiple mortal probations. This is not a final conclusion by any means, but this strikes me as Joseph Smith trying to get to his next level of understanding and thinking some of his own thoughts on certain things short of getting a definitive revelation on the subject. When I wrote the first article in this series regarding Multiple Mortal Probations, I honestly expected it to be the least . Besides the Laub's record of JS' comment on the Holy Ghost in his summary of the Sermon on the Grove, there is an additional JS comment recorded by Franklin D. Richards in August, 1843, not that long before the King Follett Sermon. I understand the principle of Condensension and know of my involvement there. Serve. Something didnt feel complete and this connects so many pieces in my life, in my culture, and even in our Hawaiian legends of gods and goddesses. What follows is a thesis on the controversial doctrine from the 19th century referred to as multiple mortal probations, which fell out of favor along with Adam-God. Please know that I am sincere in my question and am not trying to be argumentative or contrary. My only doubt was in me and the ability to live the gospel of Jesus Christ. Shapes and forms can not be seen, but you can hear, sense and feel things Sometimes it seems to be the part of the day where one is in despairBut at that point, where no light can be seen the new day is already beginningSometimes it feels like only the hope of the rising sun (son) will carry you to the first sunbeam And when the sun or the son, as you call it, starts rising there come new possibilities or perspectives along. It's kind of like how in our times people will say stuff like, "What if the Holy Ghost is Heavenly Mother?" This all adds up to only one conclusion in my mind, there is a way and a plan, and the fact that so many do not achieve their potential in a short life span, means there must be another time and place to prove themselves and the Doctrine of Multiple Probations is the only doctrine I see that provides a fair, and merciful means by which mankind may improve themselves line up line, precept upon precept enough to eventually become perfected in their own generations and exalted in all levels of Heaven. It should be made clear that the denomination Brigham Young founded in 1851, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has rejected these teachings. It felt right to me but the opposition was so strong and vociferous I proceeded with caution. It is uplifting to the soul and brings me closer to Christ. 24This is eternal livesto know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. Eric, I realize that is heretical and blasphemous to TBM ears, butit makes way more sense to me than what the church proposes. true, it should only come through certain lines of authority. Like another point of view on the same thing. I converted to the church in my early twenties when i received a witness of the book of mormon and of Joseph Smith. [a] The Triumph and Glory of the Lamb: Doctrine and Covenants 76 in Its Historical Context Big Florida development project likely worth $40-80B in 30-60 years. I like you, have had a sure witness even as I am writting this that it is true. It is headquartered in Manti, Utah, United States, where as of 2004 it maintained a membership of 300 to 500 adherents. Thank you so much for sharing your story! I have to be honest. Praise be to God and the Lamb!! In my experience the most important point of the discussion here, which I believe to be among earnest seekers of truth, is being lightly treated by those on this forum but clearly illustrated in your comment. And as this literally happens, every morning is a shadow of what will be in the long term of eternity. I was always looked at with the eyes of (Oh Brother). Promised wives, seed without number, be full partaker with Abraham, Isaac., and Jacob. millions of people from around the world are part of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints . As for multiple lives and multiple mortal experiences, Joseph and the early saints were getting pretty creative and speculative by Nauvoo. In 1786, a guy named John Zephaniah Holwell published a tract called "Dissertation on the Origin of Intelligent Beings, and on Divine Providence".I recommend it to anybody curious about the ideas of a premortal existence, war in heaven, plan of salvation, opposition in all things, infant baptism, free agency, multiple mortal probations, etc. I know many people think this is false doctrine and I did put myself in their shoes to understand where they were coming fromI could see what they were trying to say, but the fruits werent lining up. . Thomas asks if Zulema, Melanie Gibb, Lori were "very active" in the LDS Church. I love you all and am thankful for the puzzle piece of truth each of you has to offer in my journey. He showed us the way how to ascend. I also believe that they want the best of everything for me and that I can become like them. You can learn more about it here . How does this concept coexist with the idea of eternal families? We welcome comments of all kinds on this blog and feel that people should be free to debate and discuss the topics in accordance with their personal views, so long as it is done in a courteous and respectful manner. This thesis explains a bunch of odd data points and suggests a straightforward explanation for the origin of Adam-God. When we get to where Jesus is, he will be just as far ahead of us again in exaltation." It answers many of my questions, How could a god (Lucifer) fall from grace, how could the Savior become who he was in one lifetime, how could I ever make it to the celestial kingdom if my partner wasnt willing to live the gospel. I know the doctrine has come to me, and indeed to many hundreds (if not One of the purposes of this book is to outline basic doctrines and explain how missionaries should teach them. Considering the modern Mormon understanding of the titles Jehovah and Elohim didn't develop until long after Brigham Young, it is understandable that he could have developed his own interpretation of Micheal, Jehovah and Elohim. So. Agency took on a whole new meaning. D&C 132:22-25 can easily be interpreted that way: 22For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me. Have We Placed Our Hopes in the Arm of Flesh? And we do have to think about possibilities, because eventually it leads to more firm answers, but we needn't think that every thing we think is automatically true. Multiple Probations: A Lost Doctrine Remembered Aug 11, 2022. by Eric Smith . Cheryl. Thank you so very much for your great insight and belief in God and the scriptures!! Thank you for your wonderful expositions on such a beautiful and hidden part of the plan. I thought it was supposed to be turtles all the way down? God bless you. 6 No Eating Meat in the Summer. Another George Laub journal entry on JS' Sermon In the Grove seems to confirm that this is how Laub understood it. Address given at the University of Utah Institute of Religion January 10, 1982. I am he. Especially that your own witness didnt come from a human. First, one reason for living in multiple probations is to complete work started in earlier lives. I said, Wait a little. I did not reject it, but I could not understand it.[a] This is one of my favorite examples of how to receive new concepts with an open heart. I share your enthusiasm for truth regardless of its source. How can something start from nothing? About this group Our Purpose: As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we want to prepare ourselves for the day of Christ's return. I often commented in Church Sunday School, that, to be considered Noble and Great!! I began to see and feel clearly that my agency was being squashed and that their was almost a secret society within the church of people who felt similar but were too afraid to speak up. Do you believe sealing ordinances still exist? It's a Mormon version of reincarnation, where a single spirit goes through several different turns on earth before moving on to the afterlife. . This is a straight forward interpretation of the standard collated version of the sermon most often circulated, but it's made even clearer by George Laub journal summary. Maybe Shirly Mclaine was right. Some say that they dont believe in do overs. . Both Brigham and Heber were indoctrinated in the principles and I suspect others, particularly W.W. Phelps. Multiple Mortal Probation Archives - Latter-day Commentary - Last Days - Signs of the Times Multiple Mortal Probation You Have Been Here Before 50 Comments / Doctrine, Mormon culture, Personal Revelation / By Tim Malone / May 3, 2013 Some of my regular readers are going to be mad at me. A blog from a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. brazzers danny d. cursive worksheets for kindergarten. speaking, writing, arithmetic, or who have spiritual gifts such as being Although Sister Rowe is an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, her book is not endorsed by the Church and should not be recommended to students or used as a resource in teaching them. We know that there is opposition in all things. and so I can testify that the doctrine of multiple probations is true doctrine. Its like the chorus which follows the verse, giving the song power and unity. Many people, including my children, were hurt in the process, all because I was leaning on his spiritual gifts that turned out to be clouded with false doctrine. but it is necessary to know in the context of my exaltation. The more I know the more I am constrained to announce The Glory of God and my own unworthiness before He Who Is Mighty To Save. That is, I think the text is inherently ambiguous there. about the doctrine, but it is important to me. Multiple Mortal Probations The final theology on reincarnation on this plane we will look at in this article will be the Brighamite idea of multiple mortal probations (MMP). (Some received only Godhood.) And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place [the telestial kingdom where they now live], to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.". against the adversary with greater fervor. Banned topics: We speak so easily about the baptism. 33:9. this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare, Alma 12:24. a probationary time, a time to repent and serve God, Alma 42:4. your days of probation are past, Hel. Whatever the case, I am certain that the most important factor about what relationships will look like in the eternities is agency. And sorry you got excommunicated! It indicates, "Click to perform a search". Should you want a space where you can harangue, belittle, mock, and incite people to contention for their deeply held, sacred beliefs then by all means create some forums with your own rules. John 9:2 One of the things that became obviously clear to me is the purpose and reason for title names. For behold, I If you have already answered this question in a post or book, could you direct me to it. Even when I was small, I felt that some spirits come to be tested and other (superior) spirits come to test! They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving fathers heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain.. God bless you for speaking truth. In the years since my witness of the Doctrine of Multiple Probations has increased considerably, I embrace it with eagerness. The Godhead was a different blessing from Godhood. Thank you for sharing! Thank you for visiting and commenting Anna. Even if I lived to be 100 years old I am quite certain I will not know everything God knows. It "feels" more true to me than most of Christianity's "one and done" model. So beautiful and strong words that I saw citated by you and Greg this dynamic of dying and be born again. I always look forward to your writings and know you speak truth. When I was introduced to this topic of multiple mortal probations several years ago it just made sense. Thank you, I have been pondoring over weather I should share this, by no means am I a visionary like Julie and many others but on December 7th 2018 my Dad passed away at 100 yrs and 4months, my fathers passing opened up a portal to a degree that allowed me to communicate in a small way with those in the Spirit Word, what transpired startled me at first but the experience lasted for weeks. I continue to find supporting evidence in scripture and temple ordinances. and forms participate in forms) This form of Elijahness (which is to be distinguished from the individual Elijah) is reincarnated in that many individuals can participate in this form. Which is not what actually happens. According to orthodox Latter-day Saint teachings, this life is a test or probation to see if people will live by God's commandments. It would be very helpful to me, if you could share scripture references for multiple probations. Anyways, it soon became apparent that his fruits were not matching what I knew to be honest and true from my own scripture study, and beliefs. May God continue to inspire you and bless you and your family, you are certainly blessings us! In January of 1846, just over a year and a half after the death of JS, Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball ordained each other to act as a savior. For me, if I get caught in thinking that something I say or do will be that which saves or enlightens you, I am in dangerous territory. I cannot share this knowledge with my family yet because they are so narrow-minded. "when brother Pratt went back last fall, and published the Revelation concerning the plurality of wives; it was thought there was no other cat to let out. If it does not come from the Prophet they will not even investigate. It makes so much sense to me. It lasted several weeks. I must continually ask myself the question, Who am I to believe that Gods work is dependent on my understanding, teaching and attempting to enlighten the unenlightened? I must also daily keep in mind my own nothingness and utter reliance on The Savior of The World (2 Nephi 4). Elder Bruce R. McConkie. The standard version of the sermon can be easily interpreted in this fashion. I still struggle to understand my place in the eternitys. I admire your truth seeking and truth-recognizing abilities. When I first heard this doctrine I felt a rush come over me that is hard to understand and explain.
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